Daniel Kraft on gadgets and apps for tracking health and future of healthcare

Daniel Kraft on gadgets and apps for tracking health and future of healthcare

only the super-rich get to get the super drugs like this one you can put in your underwear you put it on and automatically starts tracking your steps your heart rate your respiratory state your 2004 this iPhone this is an iPhone iPhone tube it still works [Music] hi I'm Astrid ER and this is my youtube show on the rationality transhumanism and trends of development of society today here with me is dr.

Daniel craft the chair of medicine of singularity University and a major expert in the future of medicine hi Daniel good morning spasiba welcome to Russia and first of all I'd like to continue the discussion that we have started just now before the cameras were turned on you asked me about transhumanism and as I am a transhumanist blogger I really love this ideology I love spreading the word about it and I think we have a lot in common in this aspect but you said that you have some problem with transhumanism what is it exactly I don't exactly have a problem I just almost think it needs a bit of a rebranding I think it's sometimes in the in the sort of media or the common perception feels a little extreme we're already already transhumanist already integrating with technology and our phones but sometimes if you kind of just show the aspect of people inserting robots into their heads or extra cameras in the back of their you know to expand their consciousness it's sometimes I think can have a bit of a negative perception as well and I think we're all for advancement and the future of hopefully healthspan but I think sometimes it gets a bit of an extreme lens from my perspective wouldn't you want to implant some technologists in your body if they let you live longer or be more efficient or stuff like this potentially I mean it's just sometimes how you label something and how you sort of display it to the world can impact how it's adopted and how its seen like you can say artificial intelligence wouldn't you like to be smarter and use your technology to have interested information but also can be you know AI on the dark side and surveillance and the overlords so they I so all these things can be perceived differently and I just sometimes think the term transhumanism can sometimes feel a bit on the extreme end which can potentially even hinder the progress of the ability to advance technology and human evolution because the general population will be afraid that it's like creepy it can sometimes feel creepy frankly I mean you can sort of think about the cyborg element sometimes it's the Hollywood imaging of it so I mean I'd even ask you how do you define transhumanism if you look it up on you know Wikipedia it's sort of folks who want to sort of live often live forever or meld with technology and my argument is we're sort of already doing that it sort of depends on your perspective of how quickly to push that and and who's doing it and how well I certainly would like to live well maybe not forever but significantly longer than the current standard is wouldn't you sure I think forever is a very very very long time and what do you define as living I mean some folks can think about uploading their brain or now you can already capture your personality in your speech and have it maybe a little avatar of your grandfather or yeah you could live on forever in some digital form you know is that you is that life I think there's a lot of focus on longevity and less so on sort of healthspan I don't think you want to be a hundred and twenty and feel a hundred twenty sure I'm not able to think or talk or communicate or get around by yourself so I'm all for a long health span I just think there's a balance of the perception of that by the way if you want to check out more information on the current flu NJIT research check out my interview with Aubrey de Grey one of the major experts in the area so Aubrey also likes to reposition transhumanism in some aspect saying this yeah we must live longer but it must be healthier healthier lifespan so I know everybody is terrific do they have a beer while he's talking to you we had some vodka very bad because you know right well by the way are you one of those you know biohackers who don't drink you don't do anything that could be potentially poisonous I'm fasting right now no I think I'll that's fascinating I think there's a lot of newid data coming in about intermittent fasting yeah people taking metformin and other sort of elements I'm not personally doing anything crazy except trying to get more sleep which I'm not getting here in Moscow and maybe maybe it will start a little bit of intermittent fasting because I think that's easier to do then the extreme meaning you know you go from dinnertime until noon yeah but I don't do anything personally about biohacking yet I don't think there's yet quite enough data I think some of the early work on metformin is exciting and it could be something easy to do I think eventually well we'll learn that of course ageing there's no one silver bullet there's no one you know taking risks fear at all or some other drug is probably maybe a little helpful but not going to be the single element I think we might end up in an era where we learn about our personal like personalized medicine we all might have some slightly different biologic clock and we may be able to take a combination of factors to slow down aging or eventually use gene editing or other forms to to hack our biologic clock so we'll speak about the future of healthcare medicine definitely one more trendy term that I'd like to discuss it's quantified self you sometimes mention it in your speeches are you a quantified self er um I don't label myself as anything exactly but yeah I track my sleep my steps a little bit I have I'm having a belt I got in in Korea called the welt which tracks your waist and your steps and and it's now being used for older folks to track if they have a risk of a fall so I think we're all ready all of us are sort of quantified sulfur's meaning our technology is already tracking us you know especially our phones and sometimes people don't even realize I got the email from Google last week about Google Maps where have you been over the last year yeah and quantified I'd traveled around the planet like eight times in terms of distance well you know 16 countries and so we're always we're already being measured whether we want to or not I think it's one thing to be quantified the other thing is to take knowledge from that in action so if you track your sleep and you see that while you're only getting five hours a night then it can give you some well maybe I need to start getting to bed earlier little working on not having coffee before bed or we know that drinking vodka or coffee or coffee or wine before bed is not so good on your sleep cycle so I I think it's becoming easier to quantify yourself and now also put that in context so especially for longevity and health we're learning sleep is more and more important and now you can sort of look from your Fitbit or your other data how long you're in deep sleep or light sleep and compare yourself to others your age and sex and even location so I like to say we're moving from quantified self to quantified health meaning that we can take that data it's gonna go beyond our steps in our sleep to our heart rate our heart rate variability our mood our many other elements and and hopefully make that useful for you and your healthcare team or your a eye doctor yeah start giving you guidance particularly for many of your folks who want to live a long healthy life it's not about waiting for the magic potion or gene therapy or drug to automatically make you live forever start staying healthy now and sleep and taking care of your exercise and diet are probably the most important if you want if you want to get to that you know escape velocity yeah in 20 years when we can print show organs and and tune your biology would you deta i you conflict rate tracking so just do the basics I mean the Apple watch now can and and Fitbit can do a ton of information simply insights on your steps and your heart rate and how much exercise you're getting and how much sleep and what quantitative sleep that's the basics right now and interesting now it's not just the data but how you analyze it so there's some apps that come with the Apple watch that you can download that look at your detailed heart rate how much time are you in stress versus what's your resting heart rate how has that changed giving you a bit of a readiness score so if it knows I'm jetlag like I am now if I looked at my data my my score for today might be twenty whether if I got a good night's sleep back at home and I maybe I'd be in ninety and that might change my ability to have a smart interview or go run a marathon or study for a test so part of the other challenge is starting to tune these sorts of data to you I mean you're you're younger than me just a little bit your quantified self data might be you know you can might be able to sleep on four hours a night it's harder for me now maybe so we need to put these in context and individualize the data so it can be useful to you and then the quantified health side make it useful to optimize your health span prevent disease optimize your wellness pick up a disease early early diagnosis for example if your sleep is changing or your heart rate is 180 while I was sitting here something might be going on so we need to put in context with every individual and we're just in the early days of quantified self its 2020 it was only in 2009 that the first Fitbit launched and now there's you know sensors for everything even in your underwear you know so it's an interesting time to start quantifying the trick is to do something with that information that makes it useful to you and maybe even helps others by the way which apps would you recommend it's not like well paid not not like anything just the honest recommendation which ones do you use on your Apple watch for example to track your data well no there's a variety of things I mean now with you know health kit you can integrate data from your scale and if you're a blood-pressure cuff and have a scale I have a little the smart scale actually the the most important quantified self thing I have my scale we think scale you step on it in the morning and it shows you you've got up a pound or down a pound or two so it just that little bit of data it doesn't need to be fancy can give you a little bit of a nudge because all of these things are about sort of Mike micro-mini behaviors over time right if you're having vodka every day three times a day now it's so good for you right if you're getting a like I stayed up late in the Moscow last night it was great but if I did that every night not so good yeah or I had a big meal so I think it gives you even just your weight every day can start to give you a little bit of insight if I come back from a big trip and I've gone up 2 pounds or 2 kilos like I'll stop maybe eating so much bread or dessert and I'll come back down to a better baseline other terms of apps there's an interesting one called Auto sleep and Auto heart and and those start to give you lots of ways of getting extra data and insights into your behavior and to your physiology so you don't wear any specific wearables for sleep like our rain or avid ordering I lost it about a 6 months ago in Adele I left it in the charger and those what's amazing about these sort of technologies like the aura ring is they're getting exponentially smaller I mean if it is a supercomputer on your on your ring or now there's little sensors I think I've on my pocket like this one you can put in your underwear this is a company called spire and you get a pack of 10 of these and you just put them in every pair of underwear or 10 pairs of underwear and you've put it on and automatically starts tracking your steps your heart rate your respiratory state and what's interesting these start as sort of consumer devices but now in the United States with how we pay for medicine in healthcare now these companies can start to get paid for remote monitoring of patients who might have a pulmonary a car a heart or cardiac issue so they can be start to be used for monitoring and being paid for in new ways so we can put sensors everywhere and now again you don't need to wear anything cameras on your phone can pick up your heart rate or your blood pressure and how expensive that I do is Hilson right now may be mostly heart rate and blood pressure I'm not sure of the camera yet can do heart rate variability and okay I already tracked there you go so so or voice can be a biomarker yeah or Wi-Fi engineers at MIT Dina kitabi and others have now reengineered Wi-Fi to pick up the vital signs of many people even in the same room and track your sleep and other behaviors so we're during a time where we can track our digital exhaust the digit ohm and combine that with your genome and microbiome and metabolomic switch will give us a better picture of your health and wellness or transition to disease or better ways to manage a medical problem as full genome as far as I know you've done a DNA test right so would you recommend it I think we're still at the early days of omics and genomics I was I did 23andme and 12 years ago I've been probably sequenced two or three times and for me luckily I don't have too many genetic flags that came up but I think what's interesting is it can give you insights particularly if you have a risk of certain diseases or some classic genes that might be related to risk for cancer or diabetes or even mental health issues and if you have early knowledge of this sort of data you can hopefully be proactive and you again for many folks who want to live a long time or forever it's sometimes very useful to have that information so you can change your activity or get screened differently and I think the medicine of the future which is still doesn't yet today will start to really use that genomics if I'm your if you're my patient and you come into my clinic I might have your whole you might come and bring me your genome on a disc or even in the cloud but it yet is it very easy to interpret or utilize in terms of medical care the most basic genomics we can start to use today is pharmacogenomics what drugs might be best for you so maybe you're trying to use a glueck of glucophage for longevity or you have high blood pressure or high cholesterol and I need to give you a statin right which might extend your cardiovascular health I might give you everybody the same dose today but really you might be very different from ten other people I should use your genetic information and other information maybe even your quantified self information to pick the right drugs and doses for you unfortunately not many doctors today do this well because it's not really integrated or are put into the into your workflow so there's a company in California called hli human longevity incorporated where their focus is about helping extend long healthy lives and they do a full body MRI they do a genome a micro biome give you quantified self data look at your heart with the CT scan so we can start to integrate that data the challenge is if I give that to my doctor most of them still don't know what to do with all that information I think the future of medicine will be using AI and machine learning and big data and synthesizing that for you and for your clinical team so that you can find problems at stage zero you know before you have them at birth and now you can be sequenced while you're in utero and the potential there is to then understand how to optimize your health from the beginning from diet exercise mindfulness all the simple things that aren't crazy transhumanism implants or gene therapy or drugs that can really keep you on a trajectory to live a long healthy life what else would be in the medicine no future well I think back to the longevity question which many of your viewers interested in and sometimes it might be taking a baby aspirin or rapamycin or some other drugs that seem to be impacting aging at the biologic level I think maybe in the future you'll have a personalized cocktail ten years ago I went to an operated great conference called Sens it was in Cambridge and there I have the idea I was listening to lectures talking about different drugs that might affect metabolism and longevity and I thought I bet you everyone might need a bit of a different cocktail just like some people need different doses of cholesterol medication or aspirin and I came up with the idea about maybe a personalized poly pill so if you could if you could you know make your own pill you know the Gregg pill or the Daniell pill that was optimized to you and your particular health span and longevity like that might be a way to extend health long lives or to treat patients who have disease like high blood pressure or their common issues and there's even a trial that's been done in India and now in in Europe and even Tehran and Iran called looking at poly pills for prevention so a study was done ten or fifteen years ago in in India for men who'd had a brother or father who died young from heart disease or stroke but they had not yet had an event themselves and they gave them a combination pill with low-dose aspirin statin for cholesterol and two blood pressure medications and it reduced their risk of heart attack or stroke by sixty to eighty percent so as a prevention regimen so you can imagine the future for longevity and health might be looking at your risk factors which are different than mine and others and giving your own kind of prevention cocktail sometimes simple medications but in the future drugs and other elements that might impact your metabolism to impact your health span well that sounds really exciting what what is your forecasts regarding the lifespan of our generation well I'm not a longevity expert but I think we know that the longest person ever to live was 122 or something like that and there may be something very fundamental to our biology that may impact that there's been several super centenarians very few of them get there with their cognition intact so I think even if we can extend our biology you know still a major challenges are is there neuroscience to sort of make our our brains relatively healthy at that late stage of life so I think we're getting more and more information starting to understand sequencing super centenarians starting to understand the biology of Aging Google spent spun out a company called calico which I think is trying to look at the genetics and they sent the systems medicine and systems biology so my forecast I guess is that I think will be more and more common that people live to 100 or more but to get over that 120 or 130 barrier may take some interesting biologic Engineering okay I see so right now what you're doing to be healthier for a longer period of time and live longer is just have a good sleep then track your key data that's all pretty much try and optimize my diet nothing crazy everything in moderation right some people are vegan move you know some people are doing ketogenic diets that can be very helpful if you're diabetic or trying to lose weight I don't know if we already know the long-term benefits from some of these I think you know the most important thing and I think our beta grade talks about this is kind of like maintenance hopefully keep your car you know check your engine change your oil do your tires every you know 10, 000 miles those are the best things you can do right now there's not yet you tell me a lot of extra data saying these are the keys to to magic long life not smoking you know not too much drinking all those things are probably important because most of our impacts on our on our long-term lifespan are based on our behaviors and some of the basics ones some of the best things that we can do with our quantified self is to get insights into our behaviors and to start to modulate them earlier in life so now wait do you have the heart attack or the stroke or the cancer which are responsible for shortening most of our lifespans you brought with you some gadgets you already showed some of them from your packets can you please tell me more about other magical stuff that you brought in none of its magical I just you know I run a program called exponential medicine where we think about what is the potential of technology to improve health and medicine and health span and maybe life span around the world and to bring health and medicine to more people and using technology to do that and you know the most basic technologies do not even basic anymore is you know the the magical smartphone is becoming a health care technology that is embedded almost in all of us and if we're talking about transhumanism already attached to our our smartphones to augment our our brains or what I decided to see you on YouTube you know or to have the knowledge of the entire world so and this is an antique here together for this iPhone this is an iPhone iPhone – it still works here's my daughter Alexandra when she was earlier younger it still works ten years old Wow still works ten years ago this is amazing now if you use that you could try it be like slow it's a low resolution camera it feels like yeah I would never want to use that and in my iPhone 11 feels magical and soon that will feel antique 10 years from now might be embedded in my contact lens or in my hearing device so in a sense these are becoming gadgets we carrying that are becoming healthcare devices you can use this to track your heart rate from the camera you can use the camera to help you do laboratory analysis I'm on the board of a company called healthy IO where you can dipper your analysis take a picture does the diagnostics or can look at your skin lesions with artificial intelligence or analyze your voice or your movement so these are gadgets we're already caring and now there's 10, 000 different apps that can help you with some element of health from doing yoga and meditation to tracking your medication to helping you through ketogenic diet to to many other elements and so now we have other technologies like like you know this one that can track all your vital signs and your underwear under wearables or there's new companies that are building into your textiles one called my n't as the new technology called skin SK iin that can enable you and your shirt or your underwear to track your vital signs or little sensors like this this is a company from Israel called upright and it you put on your back helps your posture which mine is nothing good so it helps you buzzes your back and gives you a little nut Wow I wouldn't need this so he happy to so the idea is not just a wearable but a trainable it gives you some feedback right gives you a little buzz if you're hunched over so when it's connected to your smartphone oh so right right it can be independent but also can sync and give you analyze the name and give you a – how long are you standing up straight and just giving you a little bit of feedback every you know if you're hunched over can retrain your physiology to give you better posture and maybe that will prevent you when you're 70 from having back pain right and a lot of people have spine issues as issue as well so that's another gadget in my pocket that you can buy now for less than 100 US dollars that might be be helpful other things and I have the old one and it started like this it shrinks to this soon it will be even smaller maybe disappear as usual all the links to all the resources and gadgets mentioned in our show is in the description in the media well I think that it's easy to make these gadgets you know but what gets interesting was we start to connect the dots in the data I have an article in in the 2019 National Geographic the whole national Geographics on the future of Medicine January 2019 and the article I wrote was about the future medicine and National Geographic started to rename the title you know twelve innovations that will change the future of healthcare and sort of my point is it's not about any one piece of technology there's no magic bullet it's how you put these things together gene gene editing and sequencing wearables big data AI new forms of drug therapies and devices that will help us live longer healthier lives so it's too easy to make them just gadgets like you know this is a pretty amazing device called the echo it's a stethoscope it's a digital stethoscope called the echo II ko built by some students at Berkeley originally and so it's my gist of it dr.

sweat yeah it's just it's a digital stethoscope you can sync to your phone you could actually plug in a headset and listen as well it costs too as artificial intelligence to unable to analyze the heart sounds it even has an EKG built-in so you can do the EKG and the stethoscope so this could be useful to make you as good as most cardiologists and listening to heart sounds so this could be used for screening or if you're in a clinic here in Moscow or in rural Africa an ability to do better Diagnostics there's now even a low-cost ultrasound device embedded with ultrasound with artificial intelligence from a company called butterfly so the idea that you can have diagnostics in your pocket whether it's through your phone or through a device like this is gonna change health and medicine meaning you can start to do healthcare almost anywhere and blend that with telemedicine and dr.

chatbots other other gadgets this is an early prototype of the idea of a medical tricorder so some of you might remember Star Trek Yeah right there's the tricorder you want I helped design an XPrize an XPrize is a competition to make a medical tricorder and this is one of the teams that built a version of this so the idea is that soon we'll have technologies in our pockets that can analyze our heart date or how our health data in an integrated way heart rate data heart rate variability blood pressure oxygen saturation maybe blood sugar and then start to synthesize that and use that to pick up a problem early or to manage a disease so right now what does it do this one was a charged it up and synced it it would track heart rate oxygen saturation calculate your blood pressure give you an EKG a basic EKG and integrate that with an AI agent on your phone all within there like several seconds yes yeah and this is a prototype version we're seeing other companies build versions of these that will give you have another one in my bag integrated sort of medical data immediately that will hopefully get better and better as we quantify more people and start to understand what does this data mean you know outside of the usual clinic because probably even you and most people growing up when they get sick or have a medical issue they usually go to the doctor or to the clinic or the hospital and that's the only time they collect any medical data so we have very intermittent data and so that leads to a very reactive sick care system meaning you wait for the problem to happen rather than stop it so the future of health and health and medicine hopefully is to use these sorts of technologies some of them are quantified self some of them your omics to be much more proactive and preventative and then to optimize your health over the long term and find problems at stage zero before they become a real issue that can maybe even kill you well that has been an impressive set of gadgets I have more I think do show us now let's see other versions this is just a prototype of a sort of a lab on a chip so let's say it's it's wintertime you have a cough maybe you have the flu maybe you have a bacterial illness pneumonia maybe you don't want to get your friends and families sick you'll just spit into the element here the lines will show up you take a picture with your smartphone and it does the analysis of what kind of respiratory issue do you have what maybe what kind of virus maybe what kind of bacteria and then you can treat that more readily or do how long does it take I think it's like three three minutes you know just almost like a pregnancy because I think if you do that in a hospital it takes like a couple of days to analyze right we're seeing a whole explosion of new ways to do you know lab-on-a-chip here's another example of a technology well you know plug it into your smartphone and it'll be this is on the market already and you could do a blood test maybe you know blood sugar is an easy one but it might check your cholesterol or your hemoglobin a1c which gives you an indication of maybe diabetes or test a whole number of other factors so it's basically using simple micro fluidics or chromatography this version and then it can be a variety of different tests so for you know 10 rubles one dollar you can do a test that used to require you to go to the laboratory for 100 times that so the ability to do that do we diagnose this how do you pierce your for some it may be saliva it might be blood most people don't want to do blood every day so there's even a technology this is a new one that can put this on your arm and draw a little bit of blood and then connect it to your laboratory or you put this in the mail so you don't need to have a nurse or a doctor pull your blood you can do it easily at home so this will take I think a hundred microliters of blood a small amount but enough now to do almost any test is it thankful no this one is a little tiny micro needle you put it on your arm for like 2 minutes press the button take it off and you can drop this in the lab or maybe connected to your phone and for many folks who are interested in health and longevity they can start to quantify not just their vital signs and their steps but their daily laboratories if that's relevant right like many diabetic patients they can track their blood sugar 24/7 with a wearable blood sugar monitor many folks are doing that anyway even if they don't have diabetes to understand their their blood sugar data many folks will be able to do this sort of thing at home for many other forms your hormones your testosterone your cortisol levels your you know many other measures that might be useful to understanding your physiology your aging and to maybe stop and maybe even reverse that wow so many gives us eye well last yeah yeah so we talked about quantified self now you can think about you know quantifying your breath the molecules in your breath have lots of data so you may have heard about some dogs that could smell cancer right so now folks are building nano noses analyzing the molecules from your breath can give you an indication of you know you're going on a date you can quantify that soon this might measure metabolic diseases like you could pick up diabetes from your breath ketones there are other companies making versions of this if you're trying to go in a ketogenic diet you can look at your metabolism from your breath or maybe pick up and screen for cancerous just using your breath as well there's a company called al stone by a medical out of united kingdom that is one of the leaders in sort of breath biopsy right and so i think the future will be will start to you know you don't need to go crazy you're your environment your wearable devices your phone your cameras you can start to measure your basic physiology your basic vital signs your day-to-day elements start to see hey greg we noticed hmm your walking has changed or your posture is worse or your heart rate data is showing you're very stressed or there's signs that your blood sugars are rising at an unhealthy way and maybe give you a little text saying hey maybe you need to go get checked out with another test or maybe come to a clinic maybe get a scan maybe that finds that brain tumor or other problem very very early so that you can treat it when it's very treatable as opposed to giving you a chronic or maybe even a lethal problem so you know that's where part of healthcare is going sort of always monitoring you in smart ways giving you early warning integrating that data hopefully into the international world of big information so that when i see you as my patient i don't just have the knowledge in my head i have the sort of a i integrated synthesized information from thousands of doctors and studies you know right at my fingertips that are available for me right away and the AI is already sometimes better than the doctors in diagnose and stuff yeah absolutely I mean it's still early I mean a lot of these technologies get hyped you know you know AI robotics 3d printing nanotech big data blockchain they've all have their buzzards over there buzzwords in there Gartner hype cycle you know AI is not new 3d printing is not a new thing either but now they're becoming exponentially better every year so you know comparing my my iPhone to Don my iPhone eleven you know it's ten years later it's almost you know more than ten times more powerful what I can now fit it's like this Moore's Law Moore's law so everyone knows Moore's law the power of computing now that fits on my amazing Apple watch what will fit on my watch in ten years from now right it may be almost hard to imagine or all this will shrink into a contact lens there's news this week of a company that's getting closer and closer to an embedded contact lens which gives you heads-up display information kind of like a Google glass but their conflict plants exactly well so the era of augmented and virtual reality I mean 10 years ago you had to go to a lab and you could try a special augmented virtual reality headset now you can buy an oculus quest for you know 200 US dollars which is pretty incredible and that gives you the ability to be almost anywhere I can go visit Moscow virtually from California you can we could all be doing a virtual interview many the future of YouTube and and there's already these elements on VR we can go into virtual environments and you know you can have a virtual a session with your with your YouTube audience in real to us interesting never thought about it but so we're getting around is gonna happen yeah so even the future of Aging right you may have a medical issue you might be stuck in a nursing home in Siberia or in in New York and we can all now be connected one of the biggest issues with health spanned and and is actually loneliness there's an epidemic now we're all more connected but many folks feel for more isolated now these technologies for good and for bad can enable you to be more connected and more you know visiting your grandparents or your grandkids or just being connected to your friends and family increasingly not just on text but in virtual environments which will become more and more real or feel more real or you can be anybody you want to be you could be a different character you could be tall a short woman man robot you sounded like a hardcore transhumanism oh well I mean this gives us the ability to play in these virtual worlds yeah and and because health humans are social right health is social we can now start to augment our ability to interact and and be connected anytime anywhere by the way have you watched black Mira a couple of pieces right yes when you said about VR reality and nursing homes there's a fantastic episode Sun Jupiter I think it's called I haven't bought a person in a nursing home who's paralyzed but I livin in virtual reality and that's already starting virtual reality now is actually becoming used not just for gaming and for fun but as for therapy for folks who have pain from a burn or other engines if they can go into a cold environment and throw snowballs and see penguins and and and be in Antarctica and they lower their need for pain medication or for doing physical therapy you can be into a virtual environment and make sure you do your exercises or do virtual yoga or do virtual boxing or even to train doctors and nurses and patients to do better medical procedures so there's lots of applications of some of these technologies that start for you know for fun for video gaming and are now being used for for health and medicine you also mentioned 3d printing has there been recently any progress on 3d prints in body organs I always get that question I think for those who want to live a long time yes where are maybe eventually gave me to be the synthesize and print your organs from your stem cells but that's gonna be disrupted by the ability now to do amazing gene editing you've all heard of CRISPR they're spurs less than ten years old today in 2020 there now clinical trials showing the ability to cure some diseases like sickle cell disease and maybe thalassemia single genes single switch relatively simple diseases but we can also use CRISPR now to modify for example pigs so there's now work out of Harvard in other places to take a human size Pig knock out some of the human knock out some of the pig genes and knock in some human genes and I think the future of organ transplantation won't be 3d printing an organ but to take a humanized organ from a humanized Pig if you need an organ transplant like a chimera chimera sort of a xenotransplantation meaning if you for example your kidneys fail you might win a long time on a kidney transplant list or maybe never get it many people die thousands of people die of month or every day waiting for an organ transplant the future maybe not so far maybe ten years from now is that you'll be able to get a engineered organ from in many cases a pig that is an immunologic Li matched enough that we can do the transplant in that way well it sounds like you are kind of optimistic about the future I hope to be an optimist I mean there's lots of ethical and other challenges here who gets these technologies right even in the black mirror world or other shows you know only the super-rich get to get the super drugs or get the organ transplant so there's two haves and have-nots many of your viewers may have seen a 20 year old movie called Gattaca have you seen Gattaca that's the sort of dystopian world whether they're the genetic halves and then genetic have-nots you know we know in 2018-2019 the first CRISPR babies happened and they're not a very ethically good way what happens when we start to not just try and change genes that are for disease but to optimize your height or your intelligence or your longevity why not well I mean potentially why not but who gets this who-who who gets the rights to decide who pays for it what happens to our society when there are those who are evolving more quickly the genetic haves maybe the transhumanists who end up living 200 years and the folks who live in the relative ghetto who do not have technology well don't you think that the cost of all these things will be lower and lower like with DNA tests it used to be two billion dollars to sequence genome right and now I have done this test for less than $1, 000 you're very close to being 100 dollar genome probably in ten years it might be ten dollars or one dollar and maybe it'd be part of everyone's medical record but what happens when your employer your insurer you know TAS the government has your genome on one file just like they have your driver's license and we know okay Greg you've got some genes for early dementia or heart disease or risk for cancer do I hire you or John has a better gene profile or you're gonna get married to someone you're dating there's a scene in the movie Gattaca it's man and a woman they're on a date the woman goes to the bathroom the guy takes the hair or from her glass and sends it to the sequencing place and five minutes later gets her genetics score Wow so what happens when people start to only meet and to breed you know based on their genetics so I think there's lots of black mirror things that are interesting to think about so movies like Gattaca which are twenty years old already is starting to show us what happens in this genetic age if you're born as a genetic to versus a genetic ten what happens you're to your potential for the future what about CRISPR babies many scientists have signed open call for ban on such technology I on the other hand think that it's an amazing technology that could help us treat many diseases what's your take on this I think it's a bit of a Pandora's box I mean it's one thing to treat diseases even that quite unethical and illegal procedure done in China by dr.

he was you know to prevent HIV that was accurate it was a kind of a ridiculous excuse you know the limit I mean number one these babies did not need that as a prevention the number one number two we don't know the other implications to their health number three it probably didn't even work they were kind of Kaymer as as far as we can tell I don't think all the data has been even shared completely so we need to be very careful very transparent there may be again some positive ways we can already do genetic selection in IVF right we're only forty years into the world of in vitro fertilization Louise Brown I think is 40 years old it's amazing now how many babies are being born by IVF but now you can start to select which which embryo you have the genetically you know eight or nine versus the genetic to that's most relevant if parents know they have a genetic risk of having a baby with tay-sachs or other genetic knowledge but what happens in the future when you can have 10, 000 IVF embryos you select in that way we'll start to have we don't even need to do genetic manipulation there's a book by a friend of mine called hacking Darwin by Jamie Metzl and could read which kind of shows us this near future of evolution and making babies in 30 years it may be very rare to have a child the old-fashioned way it's gonna be all selected well why not I'm not saying why not I just sometimes I think that we don't always know the implications of this there's may be good implications and bad it may be good for some people and not good for others just like gene engineering can be made to maybe cure disease it could also be used for bioterrorism I can be used for genetically modified organisms like GMOs which can help make better crops and make corn and rice that can grow it maybe be used to address global warming by modifying bacteria to to take down co2 but it can also be used in a negative way stre D printing and be used to make a medical device but you can also print a gun right so like all these technologies damn good and bad and I'm not saying there's no absolute and and there's even even Elon Musk and others are very concerned about AI indications it's a big topic right unfriendly AI yeah so we you know space 2001 you know open the pot he made it safe what happens when the AI takes over so I just think we need to be a little careful we don't want to stop progress in the early 1970s was when we were starting to do genetic engineering able to splice genes together and many folks were uh do not do that you're playing God right we're gonna create superhumans or what have you there was a lot of pushback but several scientists led by Paul Berg because the Nobel laureate from Stanford and others had something called the Asilomar meetings a famous meeting location in the California and they brought together the scientists to kind of self-regulate how do you do genetic manipulation and engineering and by carefully setting some standards they were able to enable the whole biotech industry to emerge and companies like Genentech and others now have created entire industries where many of our new drugs which give us the ability to cure cancer or treat diseases have emerged in safe carefully regulated ways not the ability to know as you could do today do genetic engineering in your kitchen so we need to be careful because there's an incredible power in these technologies and almost anybody now can go to a YouTube video and learn how to do how to do CRISPR or how to program an AI or 3d print a medical device or a gun so I think we need to be a little bit careful about how we unleash the genie so would you been or not CRISPR I wouldn't ban it I think there's again lots of positive implications and I just think we need to be mindful about just regulate this and now that does it and use them use the power of the scientific community and in collaboration to allow it to move forward in healthy ways because we could have again the ability to download an app order a CRISPR agent drop it in the mail impact the entire city of Moscow or the world now we're in the age of pandemic disease I mean we saw a Chen WA swine flu or Ebola you can be in an airplane and 20 12 hours later be almost anywhere on the planet so there's there's a danger to our technological transcontinental world that we need to be mindful of we want to live a long healthy life we need to have a healthy planet I mean if folks are transhumanists we need to be human health is tied to environmental health absolutely so there's combining all those things so genetic modification can be good for plants it can also be bad for the environment so I think everything with moderation but I think the same thing with with diet and exercise and everything else I think that's a really sensible statement last I always ask the guests of the show to recommend some good reading material on the topic you already mentioned the book hacking Darwin would you recommend it yeah that's a great read there's a new book coming out from Peter Diamandis called the future's coming faster than you think here's another book called abundance now those are kind of good reads about technology and their potential to really impact the world in good ways there are some interesting reads on you can go to a singularity hub out of singularity University there's a lot of reading about the future and technology you can go to my website for exponential medicine and there's a lot of good videos there exponential medicine comms link in the description slash videos experimental slash videos where there's everything from talks about CRISPR and genetic engineering to quantify itself to environmental health to what we can do with treating cancer to mental health so it's a really interesting time for almost anybody to get involved in enabling technologies to build a better planet the times they are a-changin last thing we usually have a contest where we give out a book to our audience whoever leaves the most interesting comment under this video please leave a comment about our guest how did you find him maybe you think his radical maybe you think he's too moderate write something down and I will read all the comments and choose the winner and the winner gets which book which book who would really should get hacking hacking Darwin I think that relates pretty well into this world of gene editing and CRISPR and future of human evolution but I also do another competition we're in 2020 now 2020 it used to be the future right Wow right things are accelerating there's a famous quote from Bill Gates he said people tend to underestimate people tend to overestimate what will happen in one year and underestimate what will happen in a decade yeah and you know just think about it's only been 13 years since the first iPhone right things are moving exponentially faster in 3d printing and nanotech and AI and robotics and in genomics in many fields so what would you predict for ten years from now twenty thirty what would be your headline from the future you know you open the open the newspaper in ten years what might you be reading about is it going to be that the you know the thousandth crisper baby was born or the fact that the brain-computer in a plan from Elon Musk or others is now on the market and that can enable you to download the Internet to your brain you know sometimes with Exponential's it's hard to appreciate what can happen we do have the challenge for everybody to think about regulation and laws and ethics so that we help not everyone be it just a techno enthusiast but to moderate a little bit how do you educate politicians from from the White House to the Politburo to understand the the policies in the regulation that needs to be put in place to enable the next generation of digital or gene therapies or technologies that might extend our life and health span to get out there in safe ways because some people are even hacking their genetics today and that may help them or it may not so there's this balance on the Trent's human inside where we need to be bold but also be a little bit careful just watch black mirror and you can see some of the unforeseen consequences of having the memory chip or the contact lens or even the over at there's one episode about the world of quantified self where people are over quantified and they're always having the game and get points social rating system and that's our issue which is already face video China so be careful what you wish for and create that future that that hopefully is is equitable so that health and medicine and health span can come to everybody there's three billion more people coming online there's three billion people today who have almost no access to basic health vaccinations clean water basic medical care so sometimes before we think about living forever let's help people who are born in places that don't have that opportunity to access to use some of these pretty incredible technologies you know a chatbot doctor an AI sensor a drone to deliver medical care to sort of give everybody an equal chance to live long healthy productive lives wow that was an inspiring this inspiring speech but you mentioned that you have an idea for a contest so another comment please leave another comment on how the world will look like in a decade according to Bill Gates's quote it may be far more advanced than you think so try to be creative AB the author of this best comment will also receive an e-book taken Darwin so there will be two winners of this contest so Daniel thank you so much I think it has been really exciting discussion I'm sure that many of our viewers will think about various things that they could change in their lives after this to think about the future to quantify their lives maybe to be more careful with their efforts in the area of transhumanism quit smoking simple things smoking diet don't wait for the future to arrive to make some magical bullet you know thanks so much this has been must Rita subscribe to my youtube channel subscribe to my podcast on itunes and all other podcasting services please rate our show leave your comments like subscribe and see you with more interesting interviews and other content on transhumanism trends of development of society and other interesting stuff bye bye [Music].


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